Quantcast

Creativebits.org

an All Creative World site
caoimghgin's picture
821 pencils

Opinion

Logo for my giclee printmaking business. Some concern regarding the appropriateness of the design. Deciding to either spruce up existing logo or design a new one from scratch.

Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.

Commenting on this Image is closed.

gwells's picture
1704 pencils

is that giclee is beautiful fine printmaking, and the overall feel of the logo you have here says more "clunky copy shop." it's very heavy and chunky, almost more like a laundry detergent logo. i think you should have something lighter and finer to represent the process better.

onegirlcreative's picture
1092 pencils

I honestly thought it looked like a laundry detergent logo, as well. Too funny.

suzanne maestri-walters :: graphic designer :: www.onegirlcreative.com

--------
"I am not sick. I am broken. But I am happy as long as I can paint." ~ Frida Kahlo

www.onegirlcreative.com

natobasso's picture
3954 pencils

Try to create a logo that represents what you do rather than 'saying' what you do. The font impact shows little imagination.

However, even though the logo is generic it's not bad.

----
Powerpoint is not a design application

caoimghgin's picture
821 pencils

Yes!! Too true. The feel is clunky copy shop, and I want to avoid that. It is far too heavy and I've had the laundry detergent comment more than once *cringe*.

How about this treatment? Far more white space between letter forms which breathes much better and switching from the gauche IMPACT to Futura gives it a nice modern edge. I'm not so certain about the 'dot' treatment. Tried using blue for the circle, but didn't seem right.

Whaddya think? Progress?

Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.

natobasso's picture
3954 pencils

It took you all of about an hour to get this far. So you're saying you wasted a bunch of paper to get this design? I don't think so...

----
Powerpoint is not a design application

natobasso's picture
3954 pencils

How about this treatment?

This new example is just another 'treatment', and not a design, in my opinion.

Stretching text does not a design make. Think of these questions before trying again:

1. Is your shop formal or informal?
2. What's your client base? Cater to them in your design and your design will follow.

Try in pencil and paper first, then go to black and white, then go to color. You're skipping steps here because you're stuck on the computer. Good design happens in the mind first, not on the comp.

----
Powerpoint is not a design application

caoimghgin's picture
821 pencils



Wow! I'll go find that pencil and paper now. ;-)

But seriously folks, all constructive comments welcome.

Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.

natobasso's picture
3954 pencils

Your point being?

----
Powerpoint is not a design application

stephanie's picture
518 pencils

Nato gave you thought and critque, and you decide to make a personal bash against him for something completely unrelated? Give me a break.

------------
Perfectly Lost Designs

mara06's picture
2434 pencils

Nat's comment *was* constructive. Did you think that it wasn't? He's right. Sketches first, computer ninth.

Mara

caoimghgin's picture
821 pencils

And to be fair, I have killed a very respectable amount of trees working on the logo.

I found the critique to be especially ludicrous given natobasso's heavy use of photoshop embossing effects, vector distortion filters and square, circle shapes which give his logos a 'straight off the laser printer' feel.

The treatment I submitted could easily have been designed and printed on a hot metal letter press. No stretching of type. No skewing. Nothing but pure type so there is nothing 'computer first' about it. I found it a little condescending that it was suggested and then absolutely hypocritical when I found natobassos online portfolio

'Contructive' critisism would educate by saying "Works for X reason" and "Doesn't work for Y reason".

Thank you.

Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.

natobasso's picture
3954 pencils

If you're quite finished. Oh yeah, and thanks for getting permission from me first before posting my copyrighted images on this site, compadre.

Those logos are more than 8 years old and my portfolio site is in BAD need of redesign. However, they were created with clients (who oftentimes had their own art and ideas that I needed to incorporate) and I did use pen and paper first before creating them. Not every design is a picasso, but I'm sure my logos mean more than yours currently does.

Are you saying the designs aren't very good because you've stopped short of saying that? You haven't been very clear on that -- just sarcastic. Again, not a good communicator and it shows in your defensive remarks. Nice try, but focus on your own work. That's why you've posted here, right?

Oh, if you want to see something recent I just completed (I did not design the logo, by the way in case you're going to link it here), go here. Might give you a better idea of where my design skills are, and further proof that you have a ways to go.

You're not making any friends here behaving as you are.

----
Powerpoint is not a design application

natobasso's picture
3954 pencils

I found it a little condescending that it was suggested and then absolutely hypocritical when I found natobassos online portfolio

So you call 'stretching text' designing then?

I can say with utmost confidence that I gave the clients what they asked for and more with the logo examples you borrowed from my site. And the logos work for their market. Yours doesn't.

Get over it and get over yourself.

[Edit: It's all starting to make sense now. You list yourself as a 'programmer' and don't have a portfolio website of your own. Care to share more of your work? Hmmm?]

----
Powerpoint is not a design application

mara06's picture
2434 pencils

Neither of your designs works because each one, in a different way, fights the image the client is trying to convey, presumably to a high-end market.

The first one, as I guess you've already figured out, is really neat, but not for this client.

The second one is so generic as to seem almost a matter of damning with faint praise (and faint type). The filled-in "o" in "dot" seems arbitrary. What does it add to the public's understanding of this client's work? To me, if anything, it says they're sloppy enough to let their presses get too "hot," to the point where smaller point sizes fill in with ink.

What kind of "printmaking" does this client actually do? Serigraphs? Steel engravings? Or are they just using a traditional, Yale-friendly term to describe high-end, but otherwise routine, commerical print work? It would help us to know. Thanks!

Mara

caoimghgin's picture
821 pencils

The client is a giclee printer. They reproduce art for artists on canvas, fine art paper and photo-rag media (for photographers).

A giclee is usually bought by artists so they can resell their own work, thereby giving the artist practical use of their own reproduction rights which is not lost when original is sold.

So, the logo would need to appeal to oil painters, watercolor artists, photographers.

Think of a giclee as a serigraph but on an inkjet printer. Far more color accurate and with microscopic screening and near infinite gradiation. Color so accurate the artist themselves have a hard time picking out their original artwork.

The filled in 'O" in dot was intended to echo the idea of a DOT, which was blue. A true blue.

The name of the company comes from the idea that printing problems result from a weak cyan (or blue, as printers historically call it). This company uses a carefully calibrated ink set to ensure maximum vibrancy and accuracy of print.

So, do I just give up and choose a pretty script typeface? ;-) I am fighting hard to get a different look altogether.

Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.

caoimghgin's picture
821 pencils

Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.

melange's picture
134 pencils

I don't think he was attempting to be condescending or anything by his comments. Critiques sometimes seem harsher on the internet because there is no tone or conversation going along with them. With this final comment you've made about what the client does, I don't think either of these are "artistic minded" enough.

The first one - I like - just not so much for this client I think. It seems very commercial like a deodorant or dishsoap or something. Maybe just a little too clean or something? I definitely don't like the font that's spread out around the circle though. The truebluedot part across the middle is very nice looking though. what about if the logo had a more hand done kind of appeal. Might resonate with their clientel a little more maybe.

I think this is a hard business name (not that you can do anything about that) to try and work with.

The second one, i'm just not in love with. The first one is (of the two) much more successful. The letterspacing just makes it very difficult to read, and I can imagine those little letters getting lost at a smaller size.

life is great; without it, you'd be dead.

melange's picture
134 pencils

I just read your comment about the laundry detergent look. I really saw detergent without reading that though. lol!

life is great; without it, you'd be dead.

mara06's picture
2434 pencils

And therein lies a problem. Take from that observation what you will.

I stand by my comment about the filled-in "o" -- I believe it fights your message about precision.

One of the things I'm not getting from your designs is that the phrase "true blue dot" means "true-blue dot." The hyphen helps us know that the blue is true and that a dot is the medium (pardon the pun) of exchange here. Your use of different colors and/or type weights messes with emphasis on each word, with confusing results.

Not all potential customers for this client's service will know what the giclee process is all about. If they are stuck on that name, is it possible for your logo design to help them understand it? Is that even a valid thing for a logo to do? A lot of people here would say (resoundingly) "NO!" And yet, you need to at least not take people in a different direction with an ambiguous rendering of the name.

This is really a tough one, though I imagine it didn't seem so at first. I don't envy you!

Mara

stephanie's picture
518 pencils

I got the detergent feel from your first logo as well, before reading any comments.

The second and third don't seem to fit the company's services - it looks too scattered and blotchy because of the dot. The little shadow you added looks like you're trying to imitate Pixar. It also looks 80's-ish to me, I'm not exactly sure why - it might just be the large spacing between letters on -all- of the elements. I think you need to be more focused and precise.

If I were in your situation, I would try keeping the "blue dot" image more in the feeling of "we are so precise it's down to the microscopic dots on the page" rather than a big splotch of a dot. In giclee, it feels more like a mistake in that way.

I would try something in serifs if I were making the logo. Why? Because it's a personal reference when I think to fine art and artistic prints. It has more of a detailed feel, rather than a blocky sans-serif. It's worth a shot, anyway.

------------
Perfectly Lost Designs

mbennett2's picture
425 pencils

I don't think your first concept was horrible, the style just didn't seem to fit. Why not just clean it up a bit. Quick example attached.

I think you have a lot to be gained by lightening the overall weight of the logo. Might fit better with the image of the printer. I know this example is rather simple, but it is only meant to illustrate the point.

harshik's picture
16 pencils

i liked it, smart and simple example.

your work is your identity.
http://harshikcreations.blogspot.com/

caoimghgin's picture
821 pencils

I was almost afraid of doing something that simple, but it works and it works very well! It catches the eye, doesn't try to be pretentious and has an air of grace about it. The only issue (as others have rightly pointed out) would be the name itself. A name change isn't out of the question, but keeping it (for now at least) would be much simpler!

Thank you for reminding me that simpler is usually better than clever. If I play with it, I'll upload for you.

Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.

pokie's picture
1198 pencils

wow. Nice. You are totally not even worth responding to.

caoimghgin's picture
821 pencils

A tremendous wealth of excellent comments here.

Mara -- Oh yes. The name TrueBlueDot is too clever by far and it is hard to work with. And you make a good point! Would we critique the CBS logo because it does not communicate what that corporation does? Of course not! The logo works very well and is considered one of the 'classics' of identity design. Still, like you, I yearn for a visually descriptive icon that communicates the message simply and elegantly. However, that will probably take a far better designer than I am! (by my own standards I am a very poor designer indeed when I open a AIGA design magazine!).

stephanie -- Totally valid points and I think I was trying to be too clever by far. I did studies on logos of famous museums and attempted to get their same feel, and then got off track by 'tracking' the letter forms out for breathing space. It felt great when I did it, but after a day it lost it's appeal because I had a hard time reading the words. I also take your point on serif vs. sans. I also see a great deal of script faces in this industry as well...

Larger question...

What exactly DOES a fine art giclee printer logo look like? Should it feel like the artistic signature of a signed painting? Should it convey the highly precise pixels and numbers which are the tools of this trade? Shall we put a rainbow of colors behind the logo so people instantly recognize the brand as the logo of a printer? *shudder* Should it have the cool, elegant orange/grey logotype simplicity of the Guggenheim logo?

*now i'm just thinking out loud here*

What makes a giclee? Camera, to capture orig art. Inkjet printer. Computer/Monitor, calibrated light box, stretching of canvas. I can see some symbols here that *could* create a recognizable brand or a completely unrecognizable symbol. Worth some thought, and some more trees.

Cheers and thanks to everyone for the more than bountiful table of food for thought.

Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.

natobasso's picture
3954 pencils

What exactly DOES a fine art giclee printer logo look like?

Aha, you've arrived at the crux of the issue!

----
Powerpoint is not a design application

mara06's picture
2434 pencils

It's nice to have your reflections on various comments, but I think you must have me confused with someone else. I had expressed just one specific concern about the name; i.e., that it's easy to misunderstand unless you emphasize the right words in some graphic way.

My other comments boiled down to just these two (both about your newer design): 1) it seems too generic for such a specialized, high-end service; and, 2) at such a fine, small point size, the filled-in "o" in the word "dot" could be interpreted as sloppy printing (infill) -- and that this sends an unintended subliminal message that wouldn't be helpful to you.

Don't know who said anything about the name being too clever by far, or not clever at all, or not enough like CBS, or whatever it is you meant by those thoughts, but it warn't me. :-)

Cheers back,

Mara

KellyR's picture
518 pencils

Just blurting out an idea here, but if the print process is to demonstrate fine art and highly detailed printwork, I would think a very fine/thin san-serif font for the logo would get you closer to what you're trying to convey. As far as working in blue and a dot as far as imagery goes, I like the last example someone provided you. I don't think that's "it", but it's a good start.

natobasso's picture
3954 pencils

bludot.com has beat you to the punch on the whole blue dot thang company name/logo idea.

----
Powerpoint is not a design application

gwells's picture
1704 pencils

it's not like they're the same industry or necessarily even in the same area. i'm sure that's not the only 'blue dot' concept in business anywhere. and they're the only "truebluedot" registered with any suffix.

natobasso's picture
3954 pencils

i'm sure that's not the only 'blue dot' concept in business anywhere

That's my point!

----
Powerpoint is not a design application

caoimghgin's picture
821 pencils

Whaddya think? I'll have a few more ideas posted shortly, but I think your approach is standing out from the rest. I gave the font an edgier treatment, but otherwise it is unchanged. It still doesn't communicate the business as others have pointed out but we'll see how it does against the other ideas.

Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.

caoimghgin's picture
821 pencils

Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.

caoimghgin's picture
821 pencils

Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.

caoimghgin's picture
821 pencils

Toying with name change. I can do a LOT with this idea. Imagine the auditory 'echo' being applied to the visual end of the spectrum. The print being an echo of the original art.

Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.

mara06's picture
2434 pencils

Again, friend, I am puzzled why you seem to think I said anything about your name other than that the way you originally stressed the words made it a little difficult to understand its meaning. I didn't say anything at all about your needing to change it, although Nat has since influenced me to reconsider that.

The font you're playing with now is indeed very techy looking, and I don't mean in a good way. And why the sound-wave motif?

By the way, would you consider adding the accent over the first "e" in giclee? I think that might be a nice touch for the purists.

Mara

natobasso's picture
3954 pencils

Giclee printing is rough edged and real and you're still stuck in 'computerized' and 'techy' territory.

Ditch the 'blu dot' type concept; already been done (as per my previous post).

Why echo for a print company name?!

----
Powerpoint is not a design application

caoimghgin's picture
821 pencils

Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.

caoimghgin's picture
821 pencils

Didn't have much to add to your posts. Cheers mate.

Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.

natobasso's picture
3954 pencils

Why because you think you're above criticsm from me? Interesting.

You can't seem to stick to any one plan. That's not mysterious either since this is your identity (I had a lot of trouble with mine too).

I have to say, though, that you need to cut the condescending act pronto. I've got 12 years of print and another 5 of web design experience. Mocking me for my 8 year old logos is far from professional on your part -- so I could care less whether you are listening to my words or not.

That must be why you haven't posted your own portfolio website yet. Because you're a programmer who moonlights as a designer who now has an attitude. Get over yourself.

You still haven't taken out that pen and paper yet, and it's obvious since all your logos are derivatives of each other and rehashes of the same 'dot' theme and techy fonts. Again, I highly recommend going back to the drawing board and really think about what your business really represents.

And now it looks like you've changed your 'business name' from 'tru blue dot' to 'echo'. Interesting again! Does this business really exist currently? I highly doubt it.

So cheers right back atcha ya plonker and stop wasting our time with your 'design ideas' and crappy attitude.

----
Powerpoint is not a design application

caoimghgin's picture
821 pencils

chill.

Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.

natobasso's picture
3954 pencils

Maybe you'll think twice next time before being rude around here, eh?

----
Powerpoint is not a design application

mbennett2's picture
425 pencils

I would say that you definitely need to settle on a company name before you go any further in this process. Then figure out what image you want the company to portray, then start designing the logo using all of the above information. There might even be a few steps that I have left out. You seem to be working backwards a bit, and that will just end up being counter-productive.

caoimghgin's picture
821 pencils

melange (not mara) wrote, "I think this is a hard business name (not that you can do anything about that) to try and work with."

I was just trying out a new name for the company to see how it worked (and I liked it) but I think I will go with the simplified TBD that was suggested earlier.

Thanks for all the input. I think it's all done now. The 'perfect' logo will have to wait for another day.

Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.

Creativebits is a blog about creativity, design and Macs. We also have a critique section where you can post your work to get opinions and a forum to discuss any design related topics.

Recommend us on Google

Latest critique

Marketplace