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InDesign. Illustrator and PDF's

ireid's picture

Hi

Last night I had to reload an InDesign booklet that had been originally done by another artist. In other words it had been successfully printed last year with no problems. The client requested some simple copy changes and needed it re-loaded. The printer called and told me that it needed to be outlined. I did so and saved it as a PDF X. He just called and said that it was still 'asking for fonts' I went back into the indesign file made sure I outlined everything and then realised that there are 10 or so graphs that were generated in illustrator. I cannot outline all those files and re-save them (there is no time)I re saved the PDF with fonts embedded would it embed the fonts in a placed Illustrator file?

Just to make sure, I sent the fonts along just in case.

Would that cause a problem?

thanks for the assist.

JimD's picture

Simple

Would that cause a problem?

Simple. The fonts in the Illustrator file aren't outlined. Outlining fonts should NOT be necessary, though. The printer you are using is sub-par if they ask you to do this. A PDF/X1-A file should be sufficient for any printer or publication.

Obviously the printer doesn't know what they're doing, or they have a RIP that is so old that it can't handle complex files.

Sending the fonts should "fix" the printer's problem, but you could have just opened the Illustrator files and outlined the fonts, then updated the links in your Illustrator file. It's extra work, but provides the most optimum results in this situation.

God I hate it when printers are a pain in the ass.

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ireid's picture

Simple is as simple does

Thanks Jim. We'll see what happens. I haven't got a call yet.

"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda

gwells's picture

yeah, i'm kinda surprised

yeah, i'm kinda surprised your vendor wanted you to outline fonts, too. obviously they had a problem and decided to take the easy (for them) way out instead of diagnosing the problem and actually fixing it.

the only thing i could think of that could cause a problem with the PDF is if the fonts in use had restrictions on embedding in PDF (i have a couple that do that to me). but you should have gotten an error message when you made the PDF if that was the case. otherwise, pdfx1a should definitely have embedded things properly for your vendor.

ireid's picture

They COULD

have been opening it in Illustrator and then RIPPing it?

"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda

gwells's picture

if they are, run away fast.

if they are, run away fast. that's the sign of not knowing what they're doing.

ireid's picture

Client choose them

So they wouldn't have to pay us commission on printing. . . so I have NO idea who it is!

"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda

mara06's picture

This is exactly why I have a

This is exactly why I have a clause in my contract that says I choose the printer or all bets are off. My sympathies, cousin!

Mara

gwells's picture

lol... well, if you're

lol... well, if you're spending a lot of time fixing the files for a clueless printer, i hope you're charging them for "out-of-scope" work. ;D

ireid's picture

Well the printer called

Its the SAME graphs that I figured would cause the problem.

I don't get it. . . I sent the fonts.

weird.

Not my choice. Gotta deal with this printer so I'll start outlining graphs. . .

*ack*

"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda

ireid's picture

In the end. . .

I exported every spread as an eps. Opened it in Illustrator and outlined it.

Lets hope THAT does the trick.

"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda

natobasso's picture

Not much left to complain

Not much left to complain about now! You've definitely boiled those files down to their common denominator. Funny the printer doesn't want font files which actually make things smaller and easier to print?!

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Powerpoint is not a design application

ireid's picture

Yeah that thing

BARELY fit on a CD!

(ok I lie, but it was BIG)

I WAS tempted to just use Acrobat, make a multi-page PDF and save it as PDF X-1a. but what would be the pojnt? lol

"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda

natobasso's picture

PDFX1-a embeds the fonts.

PDFX1-a embeds the fonts. Then the vendor can do the outlining silliness for you. :)

----
Powerpoint is not a design application

gwells's picture

why do i suspect this is a

why do i suspect this is a "mom'n'pop" copy/print shop and not a full-fledged printer.

not to cast aspersions on small printers, i've worked with many who are very good and have a very good friend who runs one in richmond that's top notch. but almost every serious technical issue (especially those that shouldn't be) i have dealt with at printers has been at a mom'n'pop shop that i've been forced to deal with by a client (internal or external). like the shop that mixed their own pantone inks. poorly. really really poorly. like the color was pale salmon instead of medium red. and after 4-5 times of not getting it even close to right, i was finally able to convince my client to let me print it somewhere they had a clue.

ireid's picture

BUT THIS IS BIG PRINTREY!

They have 3 4 colour presses. An entire pre-press department. They go 'direct to plate' So I was VERY confused. I have been sending artwork to them for years and SUDDENLY "We missing fonts. .. please resend." I think they got a new guy in there who's kinda clueless.

I was talking to freelancer today and I asked him what he thought about it. HE said that he NEVER sends spreads to this printer. He usually outlines the indesign file and sends it as is and lets THEM re-paginate into spreads. . .

hmmm. very weird indeed.

"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda

3dogmama's picture

You'd hate to think it, but

You'd hate to think it, but do you think this print shop could be trying to cast a poor light on your work to take the business away from your group? Sad to say, but there are those out there who operate this way...

"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
— Frank Zappa

gwells's picture

who knows what the issue is,

who knows what the issue is, but there's definitely something way wacky going on here.

mara06's picture

Mama, you got it. There are

Mama, you got it. There are indeed printers who do this. There's one in my town that's famous for it. They will sabotage the work of designers because they have a few under their roof -- a portion of their staff that seems to turn over every three months or so, I might add -- and I will not do business with them no matter how much a client begs me to. They are unscrupulous and life's too short for those kinds of games, y'know?

Mara

natobasso's picture

Definitely don't do the

Definitely don't do the spreads yourself, it's their job normally to do this.

Have a conversation with the prepress manager at the printer. You can work out a process that works for both of you. Having to outline all your objects before sending a file to them is absurd and time consuming. If they are worried about font liability, you might inform them they need to purchase all the fonts they use onsite. :)

As far as communication goes it sounds like someone's instituted a blanket policy to try to avoid issues, but he/she is hitting the fly with a hammmer, so to speak. A quick convo will resolve it.

----
Powerpoint is not a design application

mara06's picture

Richmond? Hmm.

Let's tawk. E-mail me off: mara at warrentongraphics.com

Mara

mara06's picture

Richmond? Hmm.

Let's tawk. E-mail me off: mara at warrentongraphics.com

Mara

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