how aware are we

As one who is pretty-much "pro-everything" and rarely offended by anything, I'd be a poor judge of what may be acceptable to others in the way of advertising and design. I'm more inclined to push the envelope than most would be and have a pretty good success rate in convincing clients into taking a chance with a particular campaign. Mom says I should have been a lawyer. :)

I also tend to equate societal moral tendencies (and as you noted, each culture's is different) to devices that hold us back from even wanting to understand each other. Now, I'll be the first to admit that it is grossly unrealistic to suggest that there should be a global agreement on what is and is not "acceptable." I am suggesting however that there should be an "understanding." The problem is, that in every culture, there are those who seek to impose their version of "what's acceptable and what isn't" onto the rest of us.

The question shouldn't be "what is and what is not acceptable." The question should be, "Who has the right to decide this for me?"

I think until we figure out that one, we'll continue to get entangled in the struggle to define the boundaries of what's acceptable and what isn't and more interestingly, "why."

(Especially in the field of advertising, where your post seems headed) design their most forward-thinking campaigns to take advantage of what they (or the marketing experts who hired them) believe to be an untapped desire of the consumers they are targeting. We may think we're the leading edge, but actually, we might only be designing the bucket that catches the dripping blood.

I think we should ask ourself if this is something that i can stand for in the long term. Everytime we as designers take on a new client. in most cases it is obvius if its a scam or something important we are trying to sell. But i dont think the question is "why".

Cus the answed can always lead to...something like "there is so much more bad things i could do..." or "what can i as one human do?"

It all comes up to the basic common sense i think. Yes, i know that it is very diffrent in cultures but thats not the important thing. You should really think about the impact of the ad before. We al have a choice.

its hard to see designers letting money go so that they can keep their morals but in the long run we might become like soldiers, needed but not wanted. parents hate us for feeding their kids lies, we make eating junk food soo cool even though studies are showing just how much obesity is on the rise and more and more people are dying from it, i work a lot with ngo's and they way they manipulate the world is sick, poor kids who might not even been in the area being targeted, its hard to get them to turn around.
if there laws that control how doctors across the world do their work may be there is hope for us yet.

"...a nice 'liberal' base of customers that will bend at your will because they can't think on their own"

This highly moral and independent liberal objects to that blanket statement. Unless, of course, you were being sarcastic and I missed the joke -- that happens online pretty frequently, I know!

"Liberal" is frequently placed in quotation marks, as is "Conservative," because we recognize there really is no one who fits any hard-and-fast definition of either term, so they are really meaningless without further description. That's why I missed your implied sarcasm.

I assume your explanation is also meant to be sarcastic. You see, it was our country's own "fringe self-delusional leftists" of the last century that gave millions of Americans a ticket out of the Depression and, with the help of other "leftist" governments, including that of the former Soviet Union, freed Europe from Fascism. (Yes, I know -- not all results of that event were positive. I'm just sayin'....)

Ah, but I see we could probably discuss this subject forever and not agree, because we come from very different sets of life experiences and cultural biases. It's nice that such politically diverse people can be part of a community of design professionals and get along so well, don't you think so?

Your cheerfully self-delusional friend,

We do alot of work for this college and they are promoting a few seminars. The photography that we suggested they thought one of the people looked too young. That is fine that is their opinion but when you think about it, they are marketing to the people that look young like US.

As far as design is concerned, I feel a responsibility to myself alone and usually let the chips fall where they may. I also understand that there are those that will take any job as long as the pay is acceptable to the task. I'm just not wired that way.

After all, when my head hits the pillow at night, in order for me to rest peacefully, I have to be ok with me. And this includes being ok with the work that I do, design or otherwise.

However, if you are designing stuff that grosses me out or frightens the kids and you're able to sleep at night, more power to you. I personally don't feel the need to stand in your way.

As for leftist liberals, old-school democrats, extremists on either side of the debate-of-the-day, and other such nonsense... I find that those, given enough rope, will eventually hang themselves.

Live and let live, y'all. Just keep creating and designing.

And get some peaceful rest at night. That always helps.

thats what my prof would say, i guess it starts with the little things, the whole selling your soul thing, im going to stay out of the political bit, im an artist il stick to that, trying always to understand my own function through understanding the collective functions of my influences on the world and those of others, Terry nice to know you out there, with a conscience like that, in the end we will all live in the world we are building so whether design stimulates, good, evil, right, wrong, whatever we plant we will rip, i just think we owe it to ourselves to think, talk and discuss about it. But like Terry said if you can lay you down easy and not feel your conscience bleed, you are good like that, and i respect your being.

Hi all, longtime lurker here! This is my first post.

When I moved to LA this year, I knew I'd need to find a job quickly, but that there was a huge diversity of positions within the market. I laid down three ground rules for myself, positions that were dealbreakers. Before I found a permanent position, I was offered two positions that would have broken two of those rules. I still went to the interviews, still entertained the offers, but in the end was able to find something else.

It's not world-changing, it's not ground-breaking. But in the end you just have to ask what you're comfortable with. Most of us work in advertising, pushing more and more "impressions" into an already congested landscape. I would love for every piece of work to have a message, for every worthwhile non-profit to have the budget to pay a living wage to a capable design team, but it just isn't the case. I think the best we can do is to evaluate and be aware of the consequences of our work, both individually and collectively. But, like Terry said, at the end of the day we have to account to ourselves. My list is actually longer than 3 items, but I knew that in practice, those three would come up in this job market most readily. I think it's important to know what your boundaries are, to run the hypothetical exercise of what you would and would prefer not to do. Otherwise it can be a slow spiral into a career path that you despise, and perhaps a lot of sleepless nights.

But it is also about awareness, the collective effect of all these seemingly innocuous ad campaigns we work on. The build-up of things that don't break our rules. We're putting ads on eggs now, on animals, on the stripes in parking lots. I know, I know... it pays the bills. But is there a way to balance it out? Do we use our powers for good in a pro-bono type fashion, the oft-touted career advice to aspiring designers that tends to fall by the wayside once we become successful? How many people make time for this now? I have a much lower, non-profit/personal rate that I offer on certain projects when I take them, but I can't afford to offer it all the time.

For example: If you normally design ads for sugary food brands, would you offer your services to an organization sponsoring healthy school lunches? If you work for major entertainment industry clients, do you offer your expertise to help promote worthwhile indie artists and filmmakers to a larger market? I know a lot of this is moot under some non-compete clauses, but I'm just curious what solutions you would propose if we all magically agreed that most of what we do isn't that worthwhile to the culture. I enjoy the debate, but what's the solution to that conclusion?

Karma doesn't care what you do for a living: if you're a slimeball while doing it, you'll eventually be the target of some other slimeball.

We make moral choices in everything we do. We don't have to imagine ourselves arbiters of The Next New Thing to realize the impact of the choices we make. I mean, what good is it to turn down a gig with a company engaged in a business you feel pollutes the environment if you congratulate yourself on your high ethical standards by buying yourself a shot of juice in a bar that doesn't recycle its bottles?

A little choice like turning off lights in unoccupied rooms might not be sexy, but I think it says as much about us as the grandiose gestures we make in public, and in the long run, may help to enlighten as many other people, if you'll pardon the pun.

Jesthered, your story reminds me of one of my own. Once, several years ago, I was desperate for work and was temping. The agency called me and said they had an exciting job for me at a company which at that time was well-known for supporting political causes that were abhorent to me. I respectfully declined the offer, fully expecting that in doing so, I was severing my relationship with that agency. But the caller surprised me. The next gig on her list was at a company where I eventually became the marketing director, with carte blanche to start their first in-house advertising and publications department. That was the job that started me on my graphic design path. I often wonder what I'd be doing now if I'd ignored my conscience and taken that first job.

I thought about this issue a lot. I never rejected a job because of the nature of the message or product. I was lucky I didn't have risky clients. I'm always trying to promote my idealistic ideas in my work whatever the client may be. Not sure what is the absolute right thing to do. But providing for my close family has always been a primary concern. Secondary is the good of everyone around me. To balance these sometimes requires tough decisions. I would not mind not eating for days if the only job available was to design spam emails. But I would do a dozen spams instantly if my child was hungry. Of course this is an extreme example, but you get my point.

I did some video covers once for a company that was, let's say, a questionable venture at best. Ok... it was for a porn company. Here's what I learned:

1. You can't put that stuff in your portfolio unless you're doing porn covers.
2. I had to hide what I was designing from anyone who I thought would object.
3. Food bought with "blood money" always upsets the stomach.
4. People starring in porn don't actually look like that.
5. If dealing with shady businesses, get paid in advance.
6. Past mistakes don't define you unless you allow them to.

jesthered, if you know where you are going or want to go, it makes it easier i guess, i mean if your approach to life is cash first no matter what, then i guess morals tend go out the window. i believe though that a lot of people me included will sell out a little, ethics wise when the squeeze is put on us, i mean esp when i was starting out, but thats how we lean and get better, i have also learnt that taking a stand and doing good work will get you influence and that is much better than getting a big paying contract. i think thats whats made the difference to me and the work i do now. i look most at the influence of my work on the world and the long term impact. lets say i get nominated for a Nobel price for my work would i want some contract i did, ie porn, pro anti world, blah blah got paid lots of money for to then spring up and ruin that part fro me.

i will give you an example of a little country called Cyprus they have the strongest currency in the world, but in terms of influence, they are beaten by most of the worlds poorest countries, my point, its better to have influence people will come to you listen to what you say because of it not really coz you paid, i mean if design promotes and stimulates a world that is better functioning, environmentally friendly, with good morals that means less wars, longer lives, it can only be good for us, people will live longer and hence will do more work for longer.

morals and ethics will alway be subjective but i guess its the motive thats important, i have just finished a series of posters that seek to get people to stop gender violence, rape and so on, we had to use some really graphic images of women and children either raped or abused, that exposed our work to nudity and something i don't like, the use of kids to promote stuff (i just think they dont understand fully what they are doing) , but the motive was more hurt her to save her kind of.

you ask what we can do, well we are talk about it like now, and learning from each other, better one than all, so if we can stimulate each other to question ourselves seek an alternative and encourage each other to attain certain standards id say that is more than a start.